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Author
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Topic: Controlled breathing-automatic fail?
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ckieso
Member
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posted 08-04-2008 03:50 PM
  
I tested an 18 year old male juvenile for PCSOT testing. GSR and Cardio show NSR, however he was using controlled breathing throughout the exam. Three charts were run and his Beats per minute were 10, 9 and 10. If scored his pneumo also shows NSR due to apnea and more suppression on the control questions. My question is does he automatically fail due to controlled breathing or would you pass him because when scored, even with the controlled breathing, he scores as NSR. Maybe I am overthinking this, but would like to get some opinions from other examiners experience. [This message has been edited by ckieso (edited 08-04-2008).] IP: Logged |
Barry C
Member
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posted 08-04-2008 04:44 PM
You can't really justify a "failure" based on controlled breathing. About half of people tested do that. If you can't trust the tracings, then call it inconclusive, but on what basis can you say DI?IP: Logged |
Bill2E
Member
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posted 08-04-2008 05:03 PM
Can you post your charts, would like to take a look and see the controlled breathing. If the breathing is causing the other tracings to be distorted I would go INC (hellifIno)IP: Logged |
ckieso
Member
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posted 08-04-2008 05:18 PM
In this case, it appears that the other tracings were not affected, such as in other exams where there are "respiratory blood pressure fluctuations" observed due to the controlled breathing. The GSR and Cardio appear to be normal physiological reactions, not affected by the pneumos. At this time I am not sure how to post the charts. IP: Logged |
Dan S
Member
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posted 08-05-2008 12:57 AM
Based on what has been stated, none of the other parameters were effected, perhaps his breathing cycyles of approximately 10 per minute is his norm. You have to keep in mind what is the "normal" breathing cycles per minute. It is something like 13-18 or something very close depending on the handouts you have received. Remember the examinee is only 18 years old and perhaps in better shape than a lot of older folks.If the examiner truly feels that the examinee had engaged in some type of countermeasures, then he needs to report the results as NO OPIONION due to "what appears" to be controlled breathing. It is my personal experience that if someone is truly controlling their breathing, then we should observe some other distortion in the EDA and Cardio. We have generally been trained that the Respiration parameter is considered to be an effector since it will normally effct the other tracings. Obvisiously, we would like to see the chart tracings in order to render any type of an opinion. Just my thoughts, Dan IP: Logged |
stat
Member
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posted 08-05-2008 08:52 AM
i'm ugly busy right now, but I wish Ralph could post some permanent instructions for posting graphics on the examiner side. The only hindrance is that my preferred way is to use the website www.photobucket.com ----while others may have a better staging ground for graphics reformatting (to fit the html requirements of this site.) Either way, I find that other common computer tasks are FAR more difficult (see load a mp3 player) than to simply post some charts---which after the first clumsy time takes just 5 minutes if that. Somewhere I posted instructions on a thread, but I gotta run. [This message has been edited by stat (edited 08-05-2008).] IP: Logged |
rnelson
Member
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posted 08-05-2008 10:03 AM
CK,If you fax me charts any time today, I'll have a few minutes to post them. 1-720-554-7677 Or, you can email a zip file of the electronic data. raymond.nelson@gmail.com r ------------------
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here. This is the war room."
--(Stanley Kubrick/Peter Sellers - Dr. Strangelove, 1964)
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ckieso
Member
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posted 08-05-2008 10:42 AM
The reason I say controlled breathing is because I recorded his breathing while simply talking with him and his breathing at that time was more frequent and was not the same as during the actual test. This is evident of a person deliberately altering how they breathe in an effort to control the test. He did admit to trying to calm himself down. I have observed much worse attempts at distortions, but wanted to get other examiners opinion on the degree of effect the breathing had on the other tracings.I did send the charts to Ray to post. IP: Logged |
rnelson
Member
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posted 08-05-2008 12:18 PM
CK,The file is some type of .licm I'm not familiar with this. It seems to possibly be a proprietary multi-disk archive. Is it possible to send the data as a plain-vanilla .zip file? r ------------------
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here. This is the war room."
--(Stanley Kubrick/Peter Sellers - Dr. Strangelove, 1964)
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Bob
Member
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posted 08-05-2008 12:39 PM
Good afternoon everybody; Various sources I have read on the Internet would say a normal respiratory rate for an adult can range between 10-25 bpm, (most sources indicated 12-20) and obviously the health of individual must be taken into consideration. (smoker vs non-smoker; athlete vs non-athlete, various lung diseases, and etc) Taber’s Cyclopedic Medical Dictionary Ed. 20: “Respiration at less than a normal rate for the individuals age. In adults, a respiratory rate of less than 12 breaths per minute. Slower than normal respiratory rates occur after opiate or sedative use, during sleep, in a coma, and many other conditions, and may result in respiratory failure or carbon dioxide retention.” I’ve taken the position anything ‘slower than 10' is therefore ‘abnormal’ and if there is no underlying cause, then it must be controlled breathing to manipulate the test. I would tend to state No Opinion or INC due to CM effort. Dr Barland, I presented this very same question to you via email back in March.
If you have no objection, I could post your reply. Bob
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